Integration of Church and State
The Senate is meddling in religious affairs. Or is it? It is investigating six Christian "ministries" for allegations of opulent spending. When will we ever learn? Whenever you incorporate into the state, the state is your master. The state creates the corporate entity by its Word, very similar to God creating the world by His Word, and rules over its creation. These folks should tell the Senate to stick it up their legislature. But they had to register as non-profit corporations, so such an idea isn't much help. Oh, well.
Labels: 501(c)(3), Civil Government, Corporation, State Licensure
posted by Steve Scott | 1:14 AM
6 Comments:
I have been following this case in America about these 6 ministries - I hope they get revealed for what they are...whatever that is (lol). I know a few of them do not want to cooperate but I have seen some of the reason this is happening - and it is good it is...some people get cleaned out by ministries like that.
SV, You are on thin ice here. Full Disclosure, I am a supporter although not always financially of 4 of those 6 ministries.
I have been fed spiritually by them. So, I won't join with you in your joy at seeing them go thru this.
If I want to contribute money to any ministry that should be my privilege even if it's a bad choice in some people's opinion.
If we allow congress to question at this at this level, how bout the Jehovah's Witness, How about the Catholics, How about the Mormons, or GULP, church of Scientology.
Steve's point is well taken. The danger is if Turnabout should become fair play.
What if Scientology became the mainstream religious bent or even Islam in America? Then the same questions could be asked about Reform theology or Calvinism. I mean they are dangerous what they teach aren't they? Eternal security, predestination. People almost committed suicide when one such predicted the world would end one September and if you weren't already saved you would go to hell. Dangerous stuff that Calvinism.
I don't want the government messing in this. On the other hand, this is how God brings justice (making wrong things right) to circumstances that have drifted from the center. He used Assyria to correct Israel.
SocietyV, you need to be careful about hoping they get revealed for who they are. Who's next. Your church?
Your comment needs to be rethought. I might find what Copeland, Meyers, Dollar and Hinn edifying. You might not. I have sent money to all of them at one time or another. It's my right. I have never sent money to the other two. You might not choose to send money to any of them. But the government has no place in making that judgment for you or even trying to.
In most of the rest of the world there are no tax exemptions for giving to ministries. When I lived in Germany no such exemption existed.
So, tread carefully. This is NOT a good thing. The examination is OK but government should not be in this arena.
"But the government has no place in making that judgment for you or even trying to." (Gene)
The gov't isn't making that decision - they were asked to check into the books by concerned citizens - and I think those citizens have the right to know the books of a non-profit organization (namely if they are giving to them).
You use yourself as an example - no one in the gov't is asking you to stop giving - they are looking at the books and trying to make these church businesses accountable. Lots of people give on the basis of the promises some of these people make - and moreso - these are non-profit businesses making some people 'rich' (thus questionable expenditures on behalf of people). If some people want this to be checked into - I say these churches should be open about it - what do they have to hide?
I don't understand this 'fear of gov't involvement' thing you people in America have - it's quite foreign to me (being Canadian). I read over all the stuff involved in this case with the church leaders - I think they need to be held accountable for their financial dealings - by the gov't if need be - because which of these 6 leaders is going to do that on their own?
Honestly, do you think these church groups have nothing to hide with their financial dealings? Just because you have supported 4 of 6 of them doesn't all of a sudden mean they are clean financially (maybe 100's of others are seeing serious problems with those ministries finances). Also, as good as their teaching truly is - if we find they are abusing the system then doesn't that nulify almost everything they preach anyways (being hypocritical on almost all of it)? I think questions like that need to also rise from this - since we are holding these people's ministries on some pedestal in our faith.
"So, I won't join with you in your joy at seeing them go thru this." (Gene)
Then you'd probably really despise the fact I boycott 3 major churches in Canada over their past abuses of Aboriginal people in Canada (Catholic, United, and Anglican)...it's a dirty job but someones gotta do it.
"If I want to contribute money to any ministry that should be my privilege even if it's a bad choice in some people's opinion." (Gene)
I agree - you should have the right to give your money to any charity you see fit. I am not knocking the choice aspect of it - I am only concerned about the accountability aspect of it. I support the endeavors in this case because I am aware of some of Hinn's expenditures (and Creflo) - I would say if this is their actual job (these ministries) - then they should state they pay themselves extravagant amounts for their job at the least (which they do not ever say).
"Who's next. Your church?" (Gene)
They can do whatever they want to 'my church' - since I don't (1) own one (2) attend one (3) think we can own the actual church (4) see accountability as a problem (5) define church as an organization
"In most of the rest of the world there are no tax exemptions for giving to ministries" (Gene)
I think these people that use their ministries for gain (financially) need to at least be accountable - and if they are functioning like actual businesses - screw the tax exemption - they need to play by the rules. And what's wrong with a church with mega-dollars paying taxes - which help society?
I've been thinking about your comments which I don't find offensive but here's a question I would like SOMEONE to answer:
Who is rattling the cage to have these ministries checked out? Not me. Not the thousands of others who appreciated them.
So who. I'll bet if you look behind the veil you will discover that it's people who attend no church, are not even Christians at any level and are not really doing anything other than gotcha.
This is a direct attack against Christian ministries starting with low hanging fruit.
Should we allow non Christian world types to ask questions no one else is asking?
I am aware of some woman who died after having given a good amount to Copeland. Her family "Cheated" out of an inheritance is auguring for all this.
I'm not convinced that if there were no real money in inheritance to get at there would be any rattling over this.
It's all about the money.
You may not see it that way, but I don't have any problem if Ken Copeland wants to take a trip on the corporate plane to go skiing.
I really don't.
I say again, there is something smelly about all this and it's more on the investigators side than the investigated.
On the other hand, it's still the Rod of God. God using pagans to keep his people in line.
SO, if that's it, I'm ok with it all.
"This is a direct attack against Christian ministries starting with low hanging fruit. Should we allow non Christian world types to ask questions no one else is asking?" (Gene)
I say 'yes' if we want to play in their hemisphere and try to influence/control it - which does include politics (politicians). Our faith has blurred a huge line there - it started playing in the political sandbox and now it's all dirty looking. So what if a politician looks at some ministries finances - are they not in the same game at this point? For God and country I believe (which some people preach as synonamous).
If the people asking these questions are concerned with what is going on - why is accountability a bad thing - no matter who is bringing the questioning? Think Jesus got all flustered when people asked him questions - whether in Judaism or Roman - not really.
Jesus usually answers the questions and has nothing to 'hide' - he's very open and accepting in the gospels. Even when we see Jesus with tax collectors (money people) - it's not like Jesus was begging money off them. If these ministers want to claim they follow Christ - I think they need to be open and honest about all of their financial dealings or run the risk of looking more like Judas (John 12:6). I am curious what ideology they are following personally.
"It's all about the money" (Gene)
I agree - it is a money issue - but for me as a Christian viewing it - it's more a 'what are they doing with the money people give to God' issue. This isn't their money to play around with - people entrust these preachers with this money to support their work - work they claim is about and for GOD (not the minister themselves). So yeah, if they are buying fancy vases for offices, taking expensive trips, flying in personal jet planes, owning homes that are in the millions, etc...who's cash are they using for this and did the people that gave to God think this money was being used this way? Call it accountability and if dd not exist before - God's house needs to get cleaned out - irrgardless if that means a 'harsh whipping' or something they do themselves.
"On the other hand, it's still the Rod of God. God using pagans to keep his people in line." (Gene)
Think of this Gene - if he's using pagans to help Christians 'see the light' on this issue - then aren't the pagans more enlightened - since they knew what was right and did it? What does that say about the comparison of pagan and Christian? Interesting.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home